From jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Thu Dec 2 18:56:58 1993 Received: from jarthur.Claremont.EDU (jarthur.cs.hmc.edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA13851 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 2 Dec 1993 18:56:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199312030056.AA13851@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hibernation on TP750s under OS/2 Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc In-Reply-To: <2dk4n9$1l7@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA Cc: dewar@cs.nyu.edu Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 15:02:52 PST From: jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Sender: jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Status: OR In article <2dk4n9$1l7@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> you write: >I've been having a strange problem with hibernating under OS/2. >I have OS/2 for Windows and Windows 3.1 on my system. DOS/Win will >hibernate fine on my Thinkpad 750C but OS/2 is strange. It seems >to work fine if I don't load any Windows apps, but the minute I load >one (even if I close them all), I can't hibernate or suspend anymore. >Has anyone else experienced this problem? Cool, I didn't know you were running OS/2 on your 750. I can't answer your question, but how much memory do you have? What kind of battery life are you getting under normal use and in suspend mode? I recently bought a 8MB upgrade from a third party vendor. Battery life went from 5+ hours (mono 750) to just under 4 hours. Suspend mode went from 15%/day (almost 7 days suspendable) to 45%/day which doesn't leave as much battery as I'd like if I leave it suspended overnight. I've got a 30 day money back guarantee on the memory so I'm wondering if I should return it. I don't think it should be eating this much power. What has your experience been? Also, have you had any flakey behavior under OS/2 (besides video, which I'll chalk up to the drivers being v1.0)? Every once in a while it'll hang when I take it out of suspend mode, and about 1 time in 4 ctrl-alt-del will reboot the machine w/o flushing the cache. Maybe we *should* make a mailing list. :) -- John H. Kim | (This space to be filled when I think of jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | something clever to use as a disclaimer) From jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Sat Dec 4 16:28:40 1993 Received: from jarthur.Claremont.EDU (jarthur.cs.hmc.edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA17271 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 4 Dec 1993 16:28:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199312042228.AA17271@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Hibernation on TP750s under OS/2 To: Sean Chou Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 14:28:33 PST From: "John H. Kim" In-Reply-To: <199312042220.AA15561@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>; from "Sean Chou" at Dec 4, 93 4:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR > > I can't answer your question, but how much memory do you have? > > What kind of battery life are you getting under normal use and > > in suspend mode? > > I also got an 8mb RAM card from a third party vendor (Viking to be > precise; I tried EXP and they didn't work). I haven't tested out > battery life very carefully except to notice that I get about 3 to > 4 hours on average use on a 750C. If you have a mono, I would imagine > that you should get longer times than under 4 hours. What type of > apps are you running? Could it be that you didn't bother to run > much under 4 megs whereas once you got the 8mb, you went more out? I tested running full out - screen brightness on full, full processor speed, none of the power management engaged, and I was always doing stuff for the 4 hours. If I enable some of the power management or don't do things for long periods of time, I can easily get well over 6 hours. > I have yet to leave the machine in suspend mode for a longer period > than a few hours (I wasn't even aware it would last that long). If you could try it once and report back to me, I'd really appreciate it. I'll try the other problems you had, except I don't have hibernation enabled - only a 170 megger. > > Maybe we *should* make a mailing list. :) > > Well, I'm keeping in touch with Robert Dewar right now. I'll be glad > to throw you in the pseudo-list! I'm keeping in touch with him too. :) If you've got a pseudo-list, by all means put me on it. From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sat Dec 4 21:43:13 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA22935 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 4 Dec 1993 21:43:08 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14145; Sat, 4 Dec 93 22:43:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 22:43:05 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312050343.AA14145@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hibernation on TP750s under OS/2 Status: OR "Don't want to restart everything" Well I don't use hibernation, but I certainly never reboot OS/2 (except to go to DOS temporarily to show people the demo), instead I use suspend resume, which is more conveneitn than hibernation anyway, becauyse it is immediate. From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 5 00:24:10 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA19948 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 5 Dec 1993 00:24:02 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14334; Sun, 5 Dec 93 01:23:58 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 93 01:23:58 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312050623.AA14334@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hibernation on TP750s under OS/2 Status: OR Right, a mailing list sounds like a good idea. I have 20 megs memory, and I see a cost of suspend of about 40-45%/day. From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 5 00:24:51 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA20062 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 5 Dec 1993 00:24:49 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14339; Sun, 5 Dec 93 01:24:25 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 93 01:24:25 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312050624.AA14339@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hello! Status: OR message received From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Mon Dec 6 01:48:31 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA29583 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 6 Dec 1993 01:48:29 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA15706; Mon, 6 Dec 93 02:48:25 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 02:48:25 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312060748.AA15706@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hello! Status: OR I'll measure mine more accurately! From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Mon Dec 6 17:30:41 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA15769 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 6 Dec 1993 17:30:38 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA20651; Mon, 6 Dec 93 18:30:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 18:30:27 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312062330.AA20651@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hello! Status: OR I would guess that the AMOUNT of RAM doesn't matter, but having an extra memory board at all does matter. I will measure mine tonight! From jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Thu Dec 9 13:23:28 1993 Received: from jarthur.Claremont.EDU (jarthur.cs.hmc.edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA02925 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 9 Dec 1993 13:23:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199312091923.AA02925@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Audio drivers 1.1 out! To: Sean Chou Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 11:23:05 PST From: "John H. Kim" In-Reply-To: <199312091906.AA27977@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>; from "Sean Chou" at Dec 9, 93 1:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR > I dialed up the IBM BBS yesterday to formally send a message expressing > my dissatisfaction with how long it was taking for the audio drivers to > come out, when lo and behold! I saw a file called TPAUDIO11 or something > to that effect. I d/l'ed it and sure enough, it was the audio drivers > that we've been long waiting for. > > If you haven't recieved them by mail yet (I haven't), then you can > either d/l it or we can see about me UUENCODING it and sending it out > to you guys. > > Oh by the way, John Kim, are you getting these messages? Please respond > if so. yeah, I'm getting these messages. How big is the file? Maybe I'll d/l it myself. Or maybe you could uuencode it. What's the date on the file? Something tells me the IBM organization in charge of sending out the fix won't send it out for a few weeks. You see, I called them yesterday to ask and they were clueless. From sztarkin@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Thu Dec 9 21:03:01 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA25091 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 9 Dec 1993 21:02:59 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA22055 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Thu, 9 Dec 1993 21:01:47 -0600 Received: from ucdavis.ucdavis.edu by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA22039 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 9 Dec 1993 21:01:42 -0600 Received: from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu by ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA13099; Thu, 9 Dec 93 18:52:19 PST Received: from hamlet.ucdavis.edu by bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA01024; Thu, 9 Dec 93 18:52:55 PST Received: by hamlet.ucdavis.edu (5.57/UCD2.05) id AA05914; Thu, 9 Dec 93 18:49:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 18:42:05 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: Subject: AT&T KIT To: Sean Chou Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Sean Chou: Thanks for the information. I will order the modem tomorrow, probably >from Sparco. We seem to share the same excellent taste in hardware and operating systems! Regards, Brian K. Tarkington Email: bktarkington@ucdavis.edu From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Thu Dec 9 21:47:00 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA06694 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 9 Dec 1993 21:46:57 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04528; Thu, 9 Dec 1993 19:45:47 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 19:46:56 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <71218.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Subject: RE: Uploaded audio drivers to cdrom Status: OR In message Thu, 9 Dec 1993 14:19:36 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: > I've uploaded the TP750 audio drivers to ftp-os2.cdrom.com. Since > I got it off a public BBS, I figure it should be public. Just in > case though, better get it while it's still there. It should be > in the incoming directory. Guess what. The zip file is fine, but the disk image is corrupt. So you ftp'ed it fine, but sometime before you zipped the file, it got corrupted. -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Fri Dec 10 01:44:39 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA03597 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 10 Dec 1993 01:44:34 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05425; Thu, 9 Dec 1993 23:43:31 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 23:44:39 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <85480.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu Subject: RE: Uploaded audio drivers to cdrom Status: OR Well, I couldn't wait so I got the drivers off the IBM BBS. :) The sound is a little strange through the built-in speaker. I'd like to fiddle with the bass and treble settings, and I ran across what looks like bass and treble settings in the mmpm2.ini file so who knows. Make sure you read the readme and install the new mouse.sys driver -- even though the docs say the sound stops working if you suspend and resume, on my machine the mouse died and I had that ctrl-alt-del w/o flushing cache happen again. If you want to use the drivers for games, you're going to be disappointed. They soak up way too much CPU time for the latest games like flight simulators or virtual 3D-ish games. They're passable for most of the other games I've tried. They just need to have the bass and treble controls tweaked. :) I did run across one problem - If I try to run Wolfenstein 3D in a DOS box with the SB emulation, it'll eventually hang or trap OS/2 requiring a power off/on. Still, for a version 1.0 (for OS/2 at least) I'm happy. It can only get better from here (unless they don't make any new drivers). Another thing that's confusing is the volume settings. What I've think is happening is that there's a hardware volume setting (the fn-F5/fn-F6 setting), a general OS/2 software volume setting (in the sound object in the settings folder), and the app's particular software volume setting. They seem to act independent of each other, although their effect is cumulative. The opening/closing window sound is more effective if you have animation enabled. Now to go and make a sample of Homer Simpson saying "Doh!" to use as an error sound... :) Did you want to try uploading it to ftp.cdrom.com again Sean, or did you want me to? -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sat Dec 11 07:06:36 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA12137 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Dec 1993 07:06:34 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA10660; Sat, 11 Dec 93 08:06:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 08:06:21 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312111306.AA10660@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Audio drivers 1.1 out! Status: OR I would really appreciate a copy of the drivers! From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sat Dec 11 07:08:52 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA12173 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Dec 1993 07:08:51 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA10677; Sat, 11 Dec 93 08:08:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 08:08:38 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312111308.AA10677@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Uploaded audio drivers to cdrom Status: OR Thanks! From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sat Dec 11 07:09:22 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA12194 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Dec 1993 07:09:20 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA10680; Sat, 11 Dec 93 08:09:04 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 08:09:04 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312111309.AA10680@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Uploaded audio drivers to cdrom Status: OR Thanks a lot, do the drivers work? What do they do? DOS games? etc? From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Sat Dec 11 11:09:56 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA01783 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Dec 1993 11:09:52 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA09937; Sat, 11 Dec 1993 09:08:43 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 09:08:31 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <32986.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Uploaded audio drivers to cdrom Status: OR In message Fri, 10 Dec 1993 11:23:55 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: >> Well, I couldn't wait so I got the drivers off the IBM BBS. :) > > That's weird that the image was corrupted...oh well. What was the > error? When you run the exe to extract the disk image, it bombs about 840k into the process. >> bass and treble settings in the mmpm2.ini file so who knows. Make sure >> you read the readme and install the new mouse.sys driver -- even >> though the docs say the sound stops working if you suspend and resume, >> on my machine the mouse died and I had that ctrl-alt-del w/o flushing >> cache happen again. > > What are the settings? I'll take a peek for myself but in the meantime, > can you tell me what they are? It'd probably make life all the much > easier for me! :) Last couple lines in the MMPM2.INI file (in the MMOS2 directory). I'd guess they're on a simple 0-100 scale, although a post to comp.os.os2.multimedia is probably in order. > Why didn't you just shutdown without the mouse? Cuz I'm a lazy bastard. :) >> If you want to use the drivers for games, you're going to be >> disappointed. They soak up way too much CPU time for the latest games >> like flight simulators or virtual 3D-ish games. They're passable for >> most of the other games I've tried. They just need to have the bass >> and treble controls tweaked. :) > > Hopefully they'll be passable in future versions. Or better yet, the > new SL DX2/66 will come out and we'll be able to upgrade to it! :) I'm sure they'll be better in the future. Even though these are 1.1 drivers, for the OS/2 and DOS game support, they're really 1.0. > Maybe we should compile a list of sorts to send to IBM. They might > appreciate it or then again, maybe they'll hate us for it... :) I think we should compile a list of the problems we find and send regular reports to IBM. Since we've only found 3 people on Internet interested in keeping each other updated on TP750s, there can't be that many others who'll go through the trouble to file bug reports. And bug reports are the only way these drivers will get better. >> Another thing that's confusing is the volume settings. What I've think >> is happening is that there's a hardware volume setting (the fn-F5/fn-F6 >> setting), a general OS/2 software volume setting (in the sound object >> in the settings folder), and the app's particular software volume >> setting. They seem to act independent of each other, although their >> effect is cumulative. > > I know there's at least two separate settings -- a hardware one and a > software one. I think that the software volume setting can be put to > be independent of each app or universal. I just set the software to the > highest and use the hardware settings... I think I've figured this out. There are three levels of settings. The hardware level (fn-F5/F6), the universal software level (in the multimedia volume app), and a level for each app. Also at the last level is the setting for the system sounds, which is in the sound object (the bell icon). >> Did you want to try uploading it to ftp.cdrom.com again Sean, or did you >> want me to? > > Maybe you should try it. I'm only so-so certain of my PCMCIA modem > until I can get OS/2 specific drivers.... Will do when I have time this weekend. I may have to tack on a .fixed on the end of the filename, but anyone who ftps should be able to change the filename before downloading it. > BTW, what do you think of the MIDI? Sounds a little tinny. I haven't tried it yet over headphones or speakers (they're on loan to my sister who's going to school in Europe). > Also, have you tried concurrent access? I can get MIDI to play fine > along with sounds but I'd like to be able to get sounds to go > concurrently... Read the readme.os2 in the mmos2\ibmaudio directory. At the end of the file, it gives instructions on how to modify your mmpm2.ini file to get concurrent access. For some reason the sounds aren't enabled in my Win-OS/2 sessions. My original OS/2 diskettes were corrupted (some of the Win-OS/2 stuff couldn't be read) so I don't know if this is my problem or if it's a driver problem. Do the sounds work in your Win-OS/2 sessions? I can't do the much vaunted Play Two Video Clips At The Same Time. One pauses when I start the other one. (Where did I get the other video clip? I've got OS/2 on CD-ROM as well, just no CD-ROM drive - have to go through a Mac to transfer the files). Any ideas why this is going on? (On a side note, I can't wait to get some sort of SCSI device so I can just plug into the SCSI port on a Mac and use the CD-ROM drive as if it was connected to my ThinkPad...) Oh, you mentioned your modem doesn't have PCMCIA drivers for OS/2? Which brand modem do you have, so I can avoid it. :) And why does it need separate PCMCIA drivers? I thought OS/2 came with built-in drivers. -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Sat Dec 11 13:57:52 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA10573 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Dec 1993 13:57:49 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10393; Sat, 11 Dec 1993 11:56:46 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 11:56:49 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <43077.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: TP750 drivers and mailing list Status: OR Hey, I'm working on setting up a machine on Internet with a friend at UIUC. It should be up by the new year. If we really want to do this mailing list thing, I'll ask him if it'd be OK to use it to forward mail to everyone on the mailing list. Assuming we get more than the current 3 people that is. :) It should be too hard, considering he's asking me to do most of the admin stuff anyway. Fixed drivers are up on ftp.cdrom.com, /incoming/os2/750aud11.zip_fixed. I noticed in the config.sys that the SVAUDIO.SYS driver (the SoundBlaster compatibility driver) is loaded under OS/2, not the OS/2 DOS box. I'm gonna try grabbing some OS/2 SoundBlaster specific software to see if it works. Cross yer fingers. -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sat Dec 11 17:59:06 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA07951 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Dec 1993 17:59:04 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA11901; Sat, 11 Dec 93 18:58:50 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 18:58:50 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312112358.AA11901@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Uploaded audio drivers to cdrom Status: OR I wonder if the 750 demo will now work under OS/2, that would be nice, it's the only reason I keep DOS around! From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Sun Dec 12 22:37:37 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA07285 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 12 Dec 1993 22:37:33 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14637; Sun, 12 Dec 1993 20:36:21 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 20:37:35 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <74255.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: TP750 drivers and mailing list Status: OR Well, the SoundBlaster stuff that's available doesn't seem to work. It explicitly looks for the SBOS2.SYS file. About playing two MIDI files simultaneously, I think it depends on how many voices the audio hardware is capable of supporting. One of the things that really disappointed me with the 750 was that the manuals have no specs in them. Judging from the MMOS2 setup notebook, it looks like it can support 10 voices. If you play two files with <=5 voices each, maybe it'll work. Any more voices and it's impossible. The MIDI stuff probably uses FM synthesis, which is independent from digitized sounds, which is why you can play WAV and MID files simultaneously. I'm not sure about the specs on the digitized sounds either. If it's just one digitized voice, then it'd make sense that I couldn't play two video clips at once -- they're both trying to use digitized sound. In other news, I've had a pixel go half-bad on my screen. If the screen is a light color, the pixel is bright white. If the screen is dark, the pixel is grey. It's always lighter than the background, and never black. It doesn't bother me, but I'm gonna call IBM about it (and see what options they'll give me for getting a color screen in the future: "What if I buy a used TP700C, can you put that color screen in instead of fixing my mono?" :) I've gotta remember to ask them about the hard drive at the same time. I can't believe they're selling the 340MB drive for $1200. Sheesh. I hear 250MB 2.5" drives are going for about $400. I'll just sit tight (hopefully Stacker will be good enough) for the just-introduced 500MB drives to come down in price. It's hard to believe just 3 years ago 40MB 2.5" drives were awe-inspiring... Oh, you've got the AT&T modem, right? Can it maintain a 14.4kbps file transfer w/o dropping characters if you have the FUELDOS TSR loaded? I'm using a friend's 14.4kbps external modem hooked up through the serial port, and it drops lots of characters if FUELDOS is installed. I'm curious if the 16550 in your modem is "good enough" to prevent it. Anxiously awaiting word on SCSI PCMCIA cards. The way I figure, sticking on a monitor, keyboard, mouse, CD-ROM and maybe another hard drive via SCSI will be cheaper than if I had bought a separate desktop and lesses notebook. It'll also mean I can "borrow" my friend's Mac's CD-ROM until I can buy my own. :) -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Mon Dec 13 11:19:25 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA08716 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 13 Dec 1993 11:19:22 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA17913; Mon, 13 Dec 93 12:18:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 12:18:56 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312131718.AA17913@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: TP750 drivers and mailing list Status: OR I have 2 red pixels on my 750C. The limit before IBm will react is 7 From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Mon Dec 13 20:08:46 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA13216 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 13 Dec 1993 20:08:42 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17157; Mon, 13 Dec 1993 18:08:03 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 18:09:10 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <65350.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: TP750 drivers and mailing list Status: OR I got the hard drive prices from IBM direct (their catalog). 170MB drive is $649. 340MB drive is $1299. I exchanged some mail with Doug Haigh (the guy on TP350 development at IBM who occasionally shows up on comp.sys.laptops) and he verified the hard drive is a 2.5" IDE. I asked the tech support line for more info but they said they don't have any more - I'd have to talk with engineering (i.e. Mr. Haigh) to get more info on using a 3rd party hard drive. I did find out that IBM has a testing process where 3rd party manufacturers can get their products verified as "ThinkPad compatible." There currently aren't any hard drives with that label, and they weren't able to tell me if there were any hard drives being tested. The hard drive can wait for now I guess. In message Mon, 13 Dec 1993 16:33:45 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: > I just called IBM again (they must know me by voice now) to get more > specs. First, did you know we only have 16450s on our serial ports? > How disapointing. It would've cost them about $10 to put a 16550 in > there. Heh heh. That's the FIRST thing I noticed. My friend bought a modem even though he doesn't have a computer (the modem was on sale for a killer price) so he's lending it to me until he buys a computer. It's a external 14.4 so of course I hooked it up to the serial port. First time I tried it, I got dropped characters. I eventually figured out FUELDOS.EXE was the culprit, but when I checked the port with some FOSSIL drivers, it showed a 16450. > At least we have EPPs. Also, the architecture is ISA, not > micro-channel as some people have believed (myself included), which is > good is some respects. Does anyone know if it's local bus? The 700 and 720 were MCA, but 16-bit (kinda like the 386SX architecture). The 750 is 32-bit memory access and 16-bit ISA bus (including the PCMCIA slots, come to think of it, I think PCMCIA is a 16-bit standard). The MCA multitasks stuff on the motherboard better (like the serial and parallel ports), but the 750 came out ahead of the 720 in benchmarks so I think the 32-bit memory helps (the 720 is a clock doubled SLC2/50, and a DX2/50 will blow away a DX/33). The video and hard disk (IDE interface) are on the 486SL's PI local bus. As much as I'd like a 32-bit MCA notebook, I don't think there's any PC notebook that's fully 32-bit in all respects. Even the Apple Powerbooks have a 16-bit data path (again like the 386SX). Maybe the Sparc Tadpole notebooks... > Also, I have occasional problems when I first boot up, come out of > suspend, or plug in the power cord where the screen will look like it's > moving up and down. Has anyone else come across this? I think it's some > sort of power feed corruption or something. Mine's a mono, but while it's plugged into the AC adapter, a couple bright horizontal lines will flicker across the screen every once in a while. I've had no problems with screen movement, other than the normal mono problems. > Lastly, even though MSD and other things report our video as XGA (try > it if you haven't already), IBM says it's SVGA (but then you can't > always trust a technician). It's a Western Digital 90C23 (the "Rocket" chipset) accelerated chipset. That's SVGA, not XGA. The OS/2 and Windows drivers are specifically made for the 90C23, although I've noticed the Windows drivers support jump scrolling and the OS/2 drivers don't. The VESA drivers under DOS let it emulate a VESA chipset. Otherwise, it runs as a Paradise card (drivers for the Paradise are not accelerated). > About the pixels...they said 14 blown pixels on dark background and 7 > on light background. I have 1 red, 2 blues, and 1 green. What a > bummer.... Gee, I wish I had blown red, blue, and green pixels. A color screen would be awfully nice. :) -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Tue Dec 14 20:51:15 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA16713 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 14 Dec 1993 20:51:11 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21128; Tue, 14 Dec 1993 18:50:31 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 18:49:59 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <67897.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: TP750 drivers and mailing list Status: OR In message Tue, 14 Dec 1993 18:10:52 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: >> dropped characters. I eventually figured out FUELDOS.EXE was the >> culprit, but when I checked the port with some FOSSIL drivers, it >> showed a 16450. > > How did it perform otherwise during multitasking, if FUELDOS wasn't > loaded? I'm considering getting a serial modem to free up my PCMCIA slots > (for what, I don't know...)... Dunno. DOS can't multitask. :) Performance is OK under OS/2, although it still loses characters if you try to run CPU or disk intensive stuff while doing a download. The major problems I've been having is due to heavy loads on the UNIX host I use. If I run m2zmodem at timecritical priority, I can download with almost no dropped character, but that hits the CPU at what feels like 60-80%. Running DOS comm programs at 9600+bps speeds is hopeless. I'm averaging 5-10 dropped characters per screen. Then again, I haven't played with the settings much. I'm just going to get a PCMCIA modem with a 16550. > Well, the SLC2/50 is quite a ways off from a DX2/50 so it's not quite > a fair comparison. I talked to IBM again and asked about a DX2/66 > upgrade. He said that he didn't know and that even if he did, he > wouldn't be able to tell me. He did say, however, that there was a > special model out called the 750CE that uses the DX2/66 chip; however, > it's only available to "special" orders (100s purchased for a compnay, > etc.). That's news to me. The 750 is based on the 486SL chip, which Intel has discontinued -- there are no plans for a SL/2. The SL has a lot of the support chips normally found on your motherboard built-in, and consumes less power than the SL-enhanced SX/DX chips. It also has its own local bus. I know IBM has a contract with Intel that lets them modify and manufacture Intel chips for sale, so maybe that's what they did. It'd be nice to have. :) Oh, Norton SI reports 71 on a 486DX/33 with 256k external cache, but only 51 on the TP750 which has not external cache. Have either of you tried any other benchmarks? > It's too bad that the 750 isn't MCA but then again, it'll be eaiser > for us to get stuff like an extra hard drive and the specs for the > floppy will probably be mor used. Have you come across anything non-IBM > that uses the floppy? Actually, for a notebook, being MCA wouldn't be that bad. The floppy drive still connects via a normal floppy connector (although the pins are rearranged on the TP750), and the hard drive still connects via an IDE connector (ditto). The MCA would be helpful for things like multitasking serial/parallel/floppy/hard drive accesses. Also, if you get the docking station, the expansion slots would've been MCA. I'd like to see a slip-in 2.5" CD-ROM player to replace the floppy. Or an extra hard drive (I'm not sure what sort of connector the floppy is in). Or an extra battery. If I had the color model, I would kill for the TV/tuner. My sister is a film/video student, and being able to preview what she's shooting in full 10.4" color while on the road would be great (she'll probably get this computer as a hand-me-down in a few years :). >> scrolling and the OS/2 drivers don't. The VESA drivers under DOS let it >> emulate a VESA chipset. Otherwise, it runs as a Paradise card >> (drivers for the Paradise are not accelerated). > > Is there really a need to emulate VESA if you don't use any apps that > need it (or that support the WD Paradise)? I don't think so. I'm not sure how the Windows drivers handle it. And I'm not sure of the VESA instruction set takes advantage of hardware acceleration. >> Gee, I wish I had blown red, blue, and green pixels. A color screen >> would be awfully nice. :) > > The screen is mighty nice. The latest PC/Computing compares some 486 > class notebooks (with PCMCIA slots) and the IBM TP750 got good reviews > though not as good as you would expect (or what PC/Mag seems to think). > They said their users preferred the Toshiba 1950's screen over the TP > even though it's much smaller. Also, they reported that screen size > doesn't seem to matter much. All I can say is can I have some of whatever > it is they're smoking? Maybe the money they had left over in their wallets when they bought the 1950CT (about $2900) over the TP750C (about $4500)? :) Hey, is that 10.4" screen really capable of 262k colors (6 bits per primary or a full VGA palette)? That'd be amazing. The previous best I'd heard was 4096 colors (4 bits per primary). It's equivalent to going from 16 shades per primary to 64 shades per primary. -- John H. Kim | "If you'd told me within one year of losing the jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | election I'd be sitting in my living room rooting This mail sent by NUPop | for Al Gore..." - Dan Quayle, on NAFTA debate From sztarkin@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Wed Dec 15 18:45:41 1993 Received: from ucdavis.ucdavis.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA29202 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 15 Dec 1993 18:45:40 -0600 Received: from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu by ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA23199; Wed, 15 Dec 93 16:39:51 PST Received: from hamlet.ucdavis.edu by bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA15982; Wed, 15 Dec 93 16:40:29 PST Received: by hamlet.ucdavis.edu (5.57/UCD2.05) id AA23355; Wed, 15 Dec 93 16:37:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 16:20:01 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: Re: Thinkpad 750 To: Sean Chou In-Reply-To: <199312100318.AA29157@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: OR Yes, I would be happy to be included in the group with my TP-750C 12/340. I am anxiously waiting for my audio features disks. But I have plenty to learn in the meantime. OS/2 is new to me, but I really like it so far. I can't yet download from the network. I ordered the AT&T KIT from Sparco for $344.00 plus tax and shipping; I think this is a very favorable price, at least the best I've heard of. From ychou Thu Dec 16 10:12:00 1993 Received: by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu id AA27889 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Thu, 16 Dec 1993 10:11:48 -0600 From: Sean Chou Message-Id: <199312161611.AA27889@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: tpug To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar), jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (John Kim), sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (sz), ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 10:11:48 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar), jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (John Kim), sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (sz), ychou X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 673 Status: OR Hello all. This is a message to test to make sure everyone is geting this and to make sure all have been getting cross-posted. Have you all been getting the talk between me and John Kim? Well, actually, have you Robert? But now we have a new member to our list. I'll have to introduce him as sztarkin since I can't seem to find his name. Maybe he can post a reply to us and tell us his name as well as the specs of his Thinkpad. Also, has anyone else conducted any more timings to see battery rundown times? Okay, everyone please reply. If you don't get everyone else's reply, I'm doing something wrong (very possible) and please let me know (give it a day or so). From sztarkin@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Thu Dec 16 13:50:19 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA05785 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 16 Dec 1993 13:50:16 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA01198 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Thu, 16 Dec 1993 13:50:13 -0600 Received: from ucdavis.ucdavis.edu by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA01116 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 16 Dec 1993 13:50:05 -0600 Received: from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu by ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA12531; Thu, 16 Dec 93 11:35:59 PST Received: from hamlet.ucdavis.edu by bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA03945; Thu, 16 Dec 93 11:36:41 PST Received: by hamlet.ucdavis.edu (5.57/UCD2.05) id AA23851; Thu, 16 Dec 93 11:33:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 10:32:32 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: Subject: TP 750 Group To: John Kim , Sean Chou , Robert Dewar Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Gentlemen: Thank you, I have received the messages. I have a 750C 12/340 with OS/2, Ami Pro and 1-2-3. On order so far is an AT&T KIT and FaxWorks for OS/2. My name is Brian Tarkington, sorry about the confusion. Since my Thinkpad is not yet ready for communication, I am using the university's Email system which is worse than using an old XT with WordStar. I am very slow at typing, and I can overrun it. The commands are bizarre- it is very unpleasant to use- pure garbage. We have tons of computer jockeys here and a major center. Why they cannot come up with something better is beyond me. My Thinkpad's battery has been "exercised" about 10 times since Nov. 12, the happy day I received it. Subjectively, It now seems to lose less charge and last longer than initially. However, most recently after a full charge, no use for a couple of days and booting up without the AC connected, it was at 83% of capacity. I am pretty sure I have the ports off. So, either start-up consumes the power or the battery is still somehow losing its charge with time? Apart from this, the unit has performed flawlessly with the only problems caused by my inexperience. Concerning modems, while I have already decided on the AT&T (with the help of Sean Chou), Megahertz should have released their new units with 16550's, Xjack and OS/2 drivers. These might be worth considering. Brian K. Tarkington University of California at Davis Email: bktarkington@ucdavis.edu From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Fri Dec 17 00:04:30 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA21162 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Dec 1993 00:04:26 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00645; Thu, 16 Dec 1993 22:03:40 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 22:04:56 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <79496.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, cfogg@netcom.com Subject: Fw: Thinkpad mailing list Status: OR Meet Chad Fogg. Another member of our little group. There's a guy from New Zealand I'm trying to add (works at OS/2 support) but for some reason my mail program refuses to forward his messages to the account I use for offline email. ------------------------------ From: Chad Fogg Wed 15 Dec 1993 11:33:16 -0800 To: jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu Subject: Thinkpad mailing list Hello, I am the ownwer of a Thinkpad 750 Monochrome unit. I would very much like to be added to your list. Regards, cfogg@netcom.com -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Fri Dec 17 00:04:33 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA21176 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Dec 1993 00:04:29 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00648; Thu, 16 Dec 1993 22:03:44 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 22:04:59 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <79500.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, cfogg@netcom.com Subject: RE: TP 750 Group Status: OR In message Thu, 16 Dec 1993 10:32:32 -0800 (PST), sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu writes: > My Thinkpad's battery has been "exercised" about 10 times since Nov. 12, > the happy day I received it. Subjectively, It now seems to lose less > charge and last longer than initially. I've got a 750mono originally with 4MB of RAM. My first charge lasted about 3.5 hours. It died suddenly - FUELDOS reported about 20% battery remaining when it beeped and a few minutes later the light started blinking. That confused me so I kept going and a few minutes later it died despite the % battery indicator. The next charge went the other way - the computer kept going for about 40 minutes after the battery indicator went to 0%, the beeps, and the blinking light. After that the indicator has been more or less accurate with battery life slowly increasing to over 5 hours. Then I got an 8MB memory upgrade and it screwed up the indicator for about 5 cycles. It also shaved about an hour off my battery life. And 5 days off my suspend life. :( Too bad. I kinda liked being able to brag about a 5 hour battery life... > However, most recently after a > full charge, no use for a couple of days and booting up without the AC > connected, it was at 83% of capacity. I am pretty sure I have the ports > off. So, either start-up consumes the power or the battery is still > somehow losing its charge with time? Apart from this, the unit has > performed flawlessly with the only problems caused by my inexperience. There's a microprocessor (and probably some memory) built into the battery. I think that's where the computer gets the % battery remaining figure. It takes a couple cycles for it to learn how fast you use the battery. And when you're not using the battery, it drains it very slowly (I'd guess about 5% a day on mine, of course I've only left it unused for a day since I've gotten it. :). The 1/0 switch on the battery turns the processor on or off. If you're really picky about it, I suppose you can turn it off when you're not using it. But I think that'll cause the battery to have to "learn" how fast the computer uses power again, meaning your indicator will be inaccurate for a few cycles. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Fri Dec 17 15:00:56 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA12482 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Dec 1993 15:00:52 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02957; Fri, 17 Dec 1993 12:59:47 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 13:01:04 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <46865.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, cfogg@netcom.com, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu Subject: Fw: RE: 750 ThinkPad User's List Status: OR Welcome Steve Perfect. I'm looking into setting up a mailbox so we can just send mail to something like tp750@blah.blah.blah.blah but that won't be ready until the new year at earliest. ------------------------------ From: Steve Perfect Fri, 17 Dec 93 12:29:45 CST To: jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu Subject: RE: 750 ThinkPad User's List I saw your post about the new Audio Driver disk and at the same time saw your idea concerning a user's list. I think it is a great idea. Sign me up. I have had a 750 monochrome for about a week now. sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Fri Dec 17 15:01:13 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA12543 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Dec 1993 15:01:08 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02969; Fri, 17 Dec 1993 13:00:14 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 13:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <46892.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, cfogg@netcom.com, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu Subject: Re: TP 750 Group Status: OR In message Fri, 17 Dec 1993 04:08:07 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: >> Then I got an 8MB memory upgrade and it screwed up the indicator for >> about 5 cycles. It also shaved about an hour off my battery life. >> And 5 days off my suspend life. :( Too bad. I kinda liked being >> able to brag about a 5 hour battery life... > > Hmm...I would think that battery life would go the other way since you > would have to access the disk less but I guess with swap files, you > pretty much have to access it often anyway (all except for maybe Robert > with 20mb RAM). The life came to almost exactly 4 hours when I ran everything full blast (33MHz, screen on, disk on). It lasts longer of course in normal use, but life is still shorter after the memory expansion. Of course, I didn't run OS/2 back when I only had 4 MB. (I had the deluded idea of surviving with Windows until I could really afford the memory expansion. I changed my mind after I kept losing work to Windows hanging when I tried to multitask DOS programs.) >> There's a microprocessor (and probably some memory) built into the >> battery. I think that's where the computer gets the % battery >> remaining figure. It takes a couple cycles for it to learn how fast >> you use the battery. And when you're not using the battery, it drains >> it very slowly (I'd guess about 5% a day on mine, of course I've only >> left it unused for a day since I've gotten it. :). > > Very interesting. Which of course leads me to ask more questions! :) > First, how do you guys use your machines mostly? With battery or with > power? Second, do you just leave the power cord in even when not using > the machine? I use it plugged in mostly when I'm home. The bag and my stuff and computer wind up so heavy I don't bother taking the power cord with me to most places. I try to use it judiciously so that I only recharge the battery when I'm going to take it on the road. I'm dying to know if there's a way to make the battery top off at something lower than 90%. A lot of times, I don't need a full 90+% charge and I'd rather have less charge than waste another cycle in the battery's life. > And of course, I've been keeping eveyone included on the list by > modifying headers, but I can't do anything beyond myself so if you Like I said, I'm looking into a mailbox, but it won't be ready until New Years at earliest. Good idea about keeping track of OSes. I run predominantly OS/2, although I have a DOS boot partition just in case. >> The 1/0 switch on the battery turns the processor on or off. If you're > > Never realized that. As braindead as the manual is, it does have some useful information. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From sztarkin@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Fri Dec 17 17:23:08 1993 Received: from ucdavis.ucdavis.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA27100 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Dec 1993 17:21:35 -0600 Received: from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu by ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA07429; Fri, 17 Dec 93 15:08:00 PST Received: from hamlet.ucdavis.edu by bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA23750; Fri, 17 Dec 93 15:08:42 PST Received: by hamlet.ucdavis.edu (5.57/UCD2.05) id AA12649; Fri, 17 Dec 93 15:05:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 14:47:07 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: Re: Fw: RE: 750 ThinkPad User's List To: John Kim Cc: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, cfogg@netcom.com, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu In-Reply-To: <46865.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: OR On Fri, 17 Dec 1993, John Kim wrote: > I'm looking into setting up a mailbox so we can just send mail to something > like tp750@blah.blah.blah.blah but that won't be ready until the new year at > earliest. Thank you for your efforts in pulling all this together. I am sure it will greatly benefit us users. Brian K. Tarkington Email: bktarkington@ucdavis.edu From cfogg@netcom.com Sat Dec 18 22:50:32 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA09286 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 18 Dec 1993 22:50:31 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA27080 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Sat, 18 Dec 1993 22:50:29 -0600 Received: from mail.netcom.com (netcom.netcom.com) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA27069 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 18 Dec 1993 22:50:23 -0600 Received: from localhost by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id UAA16140; Sat, 18 Dec 1993 20:51:05 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 20:51:05 -0800 X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: cfogg@netcom.com (Chad Fogg) Message-Id: <199312190451.UAA16140@mail.netcom.com> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: introduction X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR >Hi Chad! Can you tell us more about your machine? What software do you >run and what OS? I'll assume OS/2 since John told me you work at the >OS/2 something... They guy from New Zeland works in OS/2 support. I'm what they call a "video data compression scientist." It was kind of invigorating to discover on a recent business trip that the 750 is like a prime status symbol in our little industrial field. Practically everbody totes a laptop too. My configuration is: Monochrome, 4 MB DRAM, 170 MB hard drive, no PCMCIA periphials yet, no use of external poiting device. For the operating system, I run Windows 3.1 and MS-DOS 6.2 (badly needed the compression); for applications, Word for Windows 6.0, GNU gcc C compiler, Turbo C++ Visual and MS-DOS C++. I bought my monochrome Thinkpad 750 from a local retailer here in the Seattle area about 6 weeks ago after having given up on a frustrating search for the Thinkpad 500. I thought I had cancelled the order with IBM Direct for the Thinkpad 500 back then ("I got a 750 so I won't be needing the 500, thank you." "Oh, you'll be very happy with that model, sir.."), but yesterday I discovered on my front porch a rather inconspicuous cardboard box with a small "IBM Traingle Park" printed on the side. I was tempted to make a little swap... but then remembered how much more expandable the 750 is (with color upgrades in early '94), more hard drive storage, etc. The weight has been less of an issue as I had originally thought it would be. My reason for keeping it in its original configuration: 1. Tarrifs were lifted a few months ago on LCD screens. Hopefully this will mean a significant price drop for the color upgrade. 2. DRAM prices were very high due to that Summer chemical fire deal. Hopefully, by waiting a few more months, the cost of the 4,8, or 16 MB DRAM card will come down by half or so. 3. The cost differential between the 170 MB HD and the 340 MB model was about $400. I figured, what with all these new 500 MB 2.5" IDE hard drives being introduced at Comdex, I should hold out for a while. I've also heard rumors about 1 GB units. Anyway, I was a bit dissapointed to discover that the floppy drive bay will not be able to accomodate the new Philips/IBM 128 MB 3.5" MO disc. The bay measured about 3/4" deep, but the press reports say the current descktop units are 1" thick. The 750's removable floppy device is just over 1/2" thick itself. A great machine. --CF From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Sun Dec 19 01:31:08 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA21181 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:06 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA13887 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:04 -0600 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA13876 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:30:58 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06305; Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:30:19 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:31:36 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <84696.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: RE: Steve Perfect? X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR In message Sat, 18 Dec 1993 16:33:28 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: > I got Steve's address as sperfect@garnet.acns.f.edu but my message > bounced back. Could you check to see if that's the right address? It's "sperfec" not "sperfect". Dunno why some schools do silly things like this with usernames. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Sun Dec 19 01:31:12 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA21198 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:10 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA13893 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:09 -0600 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA13885 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:03 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06308; Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:30:24 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:31:39 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <84699.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: RE: introduction (fwd) X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Nice to see you beat me to the punch with the mail forwarding account Sean. Less work for me... :) > Forwarded message: > >>From cfogg@netcom.com Sat Dec 18 22:50:32 1993 >>Hi Chad! Can you tell us more about your machine? What software do you >> run and what OS? I'll assume OS/2 since John told me you work at the >> OS/2 something... The guy from New Zealand (whose mail I still haven't managed to forward so I guess I'd better hurry before his news posting expires...) works in OS/2 support. > the side. I was tempted to make a little swap... but then remembered > how much more expandable the 750 is (with color upgrades in early '94), Have you asked for the price on the color upgrade? $2999.95. Yuck. Although it does put the overall price in line with the few 750C machines I found with the substantial "dealer markup." The dealer is supposed to install it so some of that price may be labor charges. > more hard drive storage, etc. The weight has been less of an issue as > I had originally thought it would be. I'm finding that out too. It's just that the cost of the machine makes me vary leery of carrying it around like a real notebook. :) > My reason for keeping it in its original configuration: > > 1. Tarrifs were lifted a few months ago on LCD screens. Hopefully > this will mean a significant price drop for the color upgrade. This is a popular misconception. The tarriff was on LCD screens shipped alone. So what all the hardware manufacturers did was manufacture the entire notebook outside the U.S., then ship the notebook into the U.S. bypassing the tarriff. IBM bought some other company that was working on some different active matrix technology. I'm hoping this or some other breakthrough will drop the price to something more reasonable than the $3000 it is now. Maybe the displays they're working on that address each line individually (just like dual-scan, except it's 480 line scan) will do the trick. > 2. DRAM prices were very high due to that Summer chemical fire deal. > Hopefully, by waiting a few more months, the cost of the 4,8, or 16 > MB DRAM card will come down by half or so. When I called around looking for my memory upgrade, prices were just above $50/meg which I felt was pretty reasonable for low-power laptop memory (based on a low of about $25/meg for standard SIMMs before the fire). This was for a 8MB module (both the 4MB and 16MB modules seem to cost more per meg). > 3. The cost differential between the 170 MB HD and the 340 MB model > was about $400. I figured, what with all these new 500 MB > 2.5" IDE hard drives being introduced at Comdex, I should hold out > for a while. I've also heard rumors about 1 GB units. Where'd you buy your system? Obviously not from IBM Direct, who charges $650 extra for the 340MB model (that's almost $4/meg, no thank you). If the 2.5" drives develop anything like the 3.5" drives, they should be dirt cheap in a year or so. I can't believe I bought a 310 MB FH SCSI hard disk for $650 just over a year ago (now worth less than $250 if anyone was willing to buy that form factor). > Anyway, I was a bit dissapointed to discover that the floppy drive > bay will not be able to accomodate the new Philips/IBM > 128 MB 3.5" MO disc. The bay measured about 3/4" deep, but the > press reports say the current descktop units are 1" thick. The 750's > removable floppy device is just over 1/2" thick itself. I don't think we'll ever see a MO drive on a portable. A MO drive writes by heating up the disk surface to something like 170 degrees Centigrade so the magnetic particles can be rearranged. That's going to kill your battery real quick. A MO drive set to read-only while running off the battery might be feasible. I am curious if IBM is working on the smaller CD-ROM format though. Panasonic has a notebook out that uses it. Since most CD-ROMs don't use anywhere near the full 600MB capacity of the 5 1/4" CDs, this may be a new standard in the making (with larger CD-ROM drives capable of reading both formats like Laserdisc players do today). -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Sun Dec 19 01:31:42 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA21229 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:37 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA13949 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:35 -0600 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA13919 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:31:27 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06311; Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:30:27 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:31:44 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <84705.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu, stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz Subject: Steve Withers X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Here we go. jarthur's mailer is kinda flakey and it wouldn't let me forward Steve's message to my offline mail account (where I do most of my replying). So I copied and pasted it the brute force way. :) Steve Withers Wellington New Zealand stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz (all night) swithers@vnet.ibm.com (all day) Welcome, Steve. Sean Chou has set up a mail forwarding account at tp750@uiuc.edu so just send all TP750 related messages there. Maybe you can pull some strings for us if we come upon some tough problems. Which address do you prefer be added to the mailing list? -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 06:32:24 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA18398 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 06:32:21 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA12789; Sun, 19 Dec 93 07:32:26 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 07:32:26 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312191232.AA12789@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: TP750 drivers and mailing list Status: OR The 750CE (66 MHz) sounds very interesting. The interesting question of course is whether this is using the same basic chassis as the 750 and just repolacing the chip, or whether it is a completely different machine. "whatever it is that they are smoking" Undoubtedly they are smoking the mysterious stuff that causes unctronollable anti-IBM bias, and they seem to have quite a bit of it around! From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 08:04:48 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA22196 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 08:04:46 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA13085; Sun, 19 Dec 93 09:04:53 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 09:04:53 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312191404.AA13085@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: tpug Status: OR I got the reply! From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 08:25:16 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA22778 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 08:25:14 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA20840 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 08:25:12 -0600 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA20834 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 08:25:07 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA13222; Sun, 19 Dec 93 09:25:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 09:25:16 -0500 X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312191425.AA13222@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu, seanchou@uiuc.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: TP 750 Group X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR What's the details on the AT&T modem? From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 09:14:06 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA24183 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 09:14:03 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA13428; Sun, 19 Dec 93 10:13:57 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 10:13:57 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312191513.AA13428@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: TP 750 Group Status: OR I run primarily OS/2, I have a DOS partition solely for the purpose of running the 750DEMO for my friends. I hope that soon this will run under OS/2 so I won't have to have DOS around any more. From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 09:26:37 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA24657 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 09:26:34 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA13492; Sun, 19 Dec 93 10:26:36 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 10:26:36 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312191526.AA13492@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, sperfect@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: introduction Status: OR I have a Megahertz modem, but have had ZERO luck in getting it to work so far, should I dump it in favor of the AT&T modem? From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 09:28:14 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA24755 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 09:28:12 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA13501; Sun, 19 Dec 93 10:28:17 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 10:28:17 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312191528.AA13501@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, sperfect@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: RE: introduction (fwd) Status: OR Of course the really nice upgrade would be an 800 x 600 active matrix color screen which could replace the current screen -- just dreamin' ... From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:15:56 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28538 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:15:53 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14162; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:16:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:16:06 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192216.AA14162@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: TP 750 Group Status: OR Can you give me exact model and pricing, do you think I should dump my Megahertz modem for this thing? From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:17:31 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28734 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:17:29 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14177; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:17:37 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:17:37 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192217.AA14177@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: introduction Status: OR tjamls From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:17:56 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28792 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:17:47 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14180; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:17:58 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:17:58 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192217.AA14180@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: introduction Status: OR that should have been: thanks (look at a keyboard to see what happened :-) From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:22:43 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA29270 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:22:39 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14208; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:22:05 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:22:05 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192222.AA14208@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: 2.88 meg diskettes Status: OR Anyone know a source of reasonable priced 2.88 meg diskettes (since we all have drives that can deal with them). I find that formatting 1.44 meg drives to 2.88 meg is really quite unreliable, any other experience? From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:29:25 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA29838 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:29:23 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14242; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:29:37 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:29:37 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192229.AA14242@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: MHz vs AT&T KIT Status: OR Well I could sell it, but maybe I'll have one more shot at getting it working (I *do* like the XJACK, and I know that the connectors are compatible with the ethernet card I have which is an advantage!_ From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:31:35 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00056 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:31:31 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14273; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:31:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:31:06 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192231.AA14273@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: 2.88 meg diskettes Status: OR I haven't found a source under $4.00/diskette (!), so $1.50 would be a great improvement, where was your source for $1.50 diskettes? From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Sun Dec 19 16:33:18 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00193 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:33:15 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA14287; Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:33:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:33:06 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312192233.AA14287@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU, jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: MHz vs. AT&T KIT Status: OR Actually it's not so much wanting the best in this case, but wanting something that works, I have been frustrated by the Megahertz so far in that regard, but maybe I haven't tried hard enough! From sztarkin@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Mon Dec 20 13:08:33 1993 Received: from ucdavis.ucdavis.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28958 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 13:08:31 -0600 Received: from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu by ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA10431; Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:55:07 PST Received: from hamlet.ucdavis.edu by bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA15000; Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:55:50 PST Received: by hamlet.ucdavis.edu (5.57/UCD2.05) id AA05990; Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:52:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 10:22:49 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: Re: MHz vs. AT&T KIT To: Sean Chou In-Reply-To: <199312192229.AA29833@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: OR On Sun, 19 Dec 1993, Sean Chou wrote: > > Can you give me exact model and pricing, do you think I should dump my > > Megahertz modem for this thing? > > I personally think that the AT&T is the best modem but the MHz has gotten > good reviews (primarily due to it's XJack though). It would be a personal > issue as to whether or not it's worth losing money over this (my friend > got a Smart Modular Tech modem for more than an AT&T and has been trying > to sell his SMT modem since but can't find anyone willing to pay over > $175 for it which would mean $150 loss). > > However, Robert Dewar, I believe is a man who wants the best since he > also paid a premium to get the TP750C in the first place and shelled out > more for the 16mb RAM. What do you all think? I wouldn't consider the Megahertz until feedback is received on their upgraded units with a 16550 UART. This might solve the problems. These were to be available on Dec. 13, according to Mike Mann of Megahertz (800-527-8677). Perhaps upgrading could be an alternative to scrapping the whole thing and buying an AT&T? The Xjack does seem to be a nice feature. My AT&T KIT has not yet been delivered by Sparco. I expected it last week. Brian K. Tarkington Email: bktarkington@ucdavis.edu From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Mon Dec 20 20:48:19 1993 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00298 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:16 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10530; Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:47:36 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:48:48 -0800 (PST) From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <67729.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Fw: Re: introduction (fwd) Status: OR You said you wanted one of these 28 (!) messages I got regarding the TP back. I'm presuming it's this message since it was in reply to a message addressed to all, and it only went to me. ------------------------------ From: Sean Chou Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:50:43 -0600 (CST) To: jokim Subject: Re: introduction (fwd) > Nice to see you beat me to the punch with the mail forwarding account Sean. > Less work for me... :) Well, it was only logical once I saw your idea. After all, I have the same thing set up at my school account for an OS/2 user group (it's os2ug@uiuc.edu in case anyone's interested). > The guy from New Zealand (whose mail I still haven't managed to forward so I > guess I'd better hurry before his news posting expires...) works in OS/2 > support. Yup, he'd be great to have along the list, especially if he uses a TP750! :) > Have you asked for the price on the color upgrade? $2999.95. Yuck. > Although it does put the overall price in line with the few 750C machines I > found with the substantial "dealer markup." The dealer is supposed to > install it so some of that price may be labor charges. Amazing! Only IBM can get away with this and they couldn't pull it off with anything other than the 700 series. I seriously hope they reevaluate their position and possible leadership in the notebook area. Of course, that may be too close to a vision for their CEO... > I'm finding that out too. It's just that the cost of the machine makes me > vary leery of carrying it around like a real notebook. :) That's what insurance is for! :) I'm definately insuring my TP for piece of mind. And it also makes you paranoid..."I know he was looking at my TP750...I think he's gonna mug me!" :) I just try to be casual with it....but cautious still... > price to something more reasonable than the $3000 it is now. Maybe the > displays they're working on that address each line individually (just like > dual-scan, except it's 480 line scan) will do the trick. Well, dual-scan has really impressed me. Maybe they can do something like a tetra-scan... > When I called around looking for my memory upgrade, prices were just above > $50/meg which I felt was pretty reasonable for low-power laptop memory > (based on a low of about $25/meg for standard SIMMs before the fire). This I recall the same. I was hoping for the 16mb but the initial money I paid for the TP alone just really set me back... > Where'd you buy your system? Obviously not from IBM Direct, who charges > $650 extra for the 340MB model (that's almost $4/meg, no thank you). > If the 2.5" drives develop anything like the 3.5" drives, they should be > dirt cheap in a year or so. I can't believe I bought a 310 MB FH SCSI hard > disk for $650 just over a year ago (now worth less than $250 if anyone was > willing to buy that form factor). I imagine the market will develop somewhat similarly to the 3.5 drives especially with this new focus on desktop-replacing notebooks. That's one reason why I wanted a hard drive that would be easily upgradeable as well as universally supported (I believe that IBM has passed Mac finally in the notebook arena). Any manufacturer in their right mind is going to make sure their products work with the IBM (hasn't it almost always been like that barring the MicroChannel fiasco which we can attribute to a Diamond-like refusal to distribute specs). > I don't think we'll ever see a MO drive on a portable. A MO drive writes by > heating up the disk surface to something like 170 degrees Centigrade so the > magnetic particles can be rearranged. That's going to kill your battery > real quick. A MO drive set to read-only while running off the battery > might be feasible. That's why I always point to flopticals. It could be cheap enough if it were popular and it can be used in notebooks easily (I would imagine). > I am curious if IBM is working on the smaller CD-ROM format though. > Panasonic has a notebook out that uses it. Since most CD-ROMs don't use > anywhere near the full 600MB capacity of the 5 1/4" CDs, this may be a new > standard in the making (with larger CD-ROM drives capable of reading both > formats like Laserdisc players do today). That would be quite nice. And the best part is, we don't have to wait for IBM necessarily...maybe another company will see the potential in it. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Mon Dec 20 20:48:36 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00330 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:34 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA28654 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:32 -0600 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28644 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:26 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10533; Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:47:47 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:48:59 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <67740.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: RE: 2.88 meg diskettes X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR In message Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:22:05 -0500, Robert Dewar writes: > Anyone know a source of reasonable priced 2.88 meg diskettes (since we all > have drives that can deal with them). I find that formatting 1.44 meg > drives to 2.88 meg is really quite unreliable, any other experience? I've got 6 1.44 meg diskettes (I don't think you can format 1.44 meg drives as 2.88 meg :) that I've formatted to 2.88 meg and backed up some stuff on. They're zip files that take nearly all 2.88 meg of space so it's relatively simple for me to test them. They passed the 1-day test, the 1-week test, and I'll be pulling them out this week for the 1-month test. But I still wouldn't trust my data to them (I use them for things like backups of my original diskettes -- since I've never had an original go bad, I figure the chances of an original and a backup on 2.88 going bad are remote). On a related note, I've had problems reading some 1.44 meg diskettes. It seems to be dependent on the drive used to write the diskettes. One of my friends' computer can read stuff my 750 writes just fine, but the 750 can't read anything his drive writes. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Mon Dec 20 20:48:45 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00347 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:43 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA28687 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:42 -0600 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28661 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:34 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10536; Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:47:54 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:49:10 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <67750.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: RE: MHz vs. AT&T KIT X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR In message Sun, 19 Dec 1993 16:29:22 -0600 (CST), Sean Chou writes: > I personally think that the AT&T is the best modem but the MHz has gotten > good reviews (primarily due to it's XJack though). It would be a personal > issue as to whether or not it's worth losing money over this (my friend > got a Smart Modular Tech modem for more than an AT&T and has been trying > to sell his SMT modem since but can't find anyone willing to pay over > $175 for it which would mean $150 loss). The MegaHertz V.32bis modem currently only emulates a 16450. The AT&T emulates a 16550 (AFNANDWHATEVEROTHERLETTERS). MegaHertz says they're working on a version that emulates a 16550. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Mon Dec 20 20:48:55 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00356 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:53 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA28714 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:51 -0600 Received: from chs.claremont.edu (CHS.CUSD.Claremont.Edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA28704 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:48:44 -0600 Received: by chs.claremont.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10542; Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:48:05 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:49:24 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: "John Kim" Sender: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Reply-To: jokim@CHS.CUSD.CLAREMONT.EDU Message-Id: <67765.jokim@chs.cusd.claremont.edu> To: Cc: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: TP750 Mailing list address X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Some of you are still manually sending messages to everyone individually (or via an alias). Sean has set up a mail forwarding account to do that for us. >From now on, send all TP750 mailing list messages to: tp750@uiuc.edu which will forward your message to everyone currently on the mailing list (including you). Sean will hopefully be prompt in updating this service with new members so we don't have to change a thing as we pick up more members. -- John H. Kim | "In fact, Chicago does support security. The sec- jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | urity APIs are there; they just don't do anything." This mail sent by NUPop | - Brad Silverber, VP Microsoft personal systems From sztarkin@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Tue Dec 21 13:25:57 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA27183 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 21 Dec 1993 13:25:55 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA14446 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Tue, 21 Dec 1993 13:25:54 -0600 Received: from ucdavis.ucdavis.edu by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA14436 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 21 Dec 1993 13:25:47 -0600 Received: from bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu by ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA25189; Tue, 21 Dec 93 11:15:35 PST Received: from hamlet.ucdavis.edu by bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.05) id AA07541; Tue, 21 Dec 93 11:16:07 PST Received: by hamlet.ucdavis.edu (5.57/UCD2.05) id AA11596; Tue, 21 Dec 93 11:12:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 10:35:51 -0800 (PST) X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: Subject: Re: MHz vs. AT&T KIT To: Sean Chou In-Reply-To: <199312210450.AA11395@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, I wrote: > My AT&T KIT has not yet been delivered by Sparco. I expected it last week. My modem was delivered yesterday after I wrote the above. The grey paint with black writing are quite pedestrian--almost looks like Navy issue. But that is about as far as I had time for last night. I am not going to play around with it until I've had sufficient time to read the manuals, etc. Also, the "optical line inteface" cable appears to be durable and easy to connect to the card. What is in that connector? Also, Sean, do you have any words of wisdom about how to get this thing working? I presume I will have to configure it in DOS. Thanks. Brian K. Tarkington bktarkington@ucdavis.edu From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Wed Dec 22 15:08:23 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA24010 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 22 Dec 1993 15:08:22 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA16015 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Wed, 22 Dec 1993 15:08:20 -0600 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA15996 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 22 Dec 1993 15:08:14 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA29790; Wed, 22 Dec 93 16:08:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 16:08:28 -0500 X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312222108.AA29790@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: IBM keyboard with trackpoint II X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Since I like the trackpoint II better than a mouse, and I was getting tired of reaching for a non-existent red button on my desk top keyboard, I ordered the IBM keyboard tiwh the trackpoint II. It's very nice, similar layout to the TP750 except that the home/end keys are to the right, closer to where they are on a regular keyboard instead of on top. I also got the numeric keypad (which I assume would work on my TP as well). It is very neat, the whole thing cost me about $240 and was in my opinion well worth while. I had to set the sensitivty of the mouse up to max on my 20" screen. THat means I couldn't use the mouse simultaneously (tto sensitive) but I don't want to use it anyway (I am happy to reclaim the desk space!) From jdg@oz.plymouth.edu Sun Dec 26 19:56:51 1993 Received: from oz.plymouth.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA29239 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 26 Dec 1993 19:56:49 -0600 Received: by oz.plymouth.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26517; Sun, 26 Dec 93 20:59:41 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 20:59:41 -0500 From: jdg@oz.plymouth.edu (Dr. Joel Goldfield) Message-Id: <9312270159.AA26517@oz.plymouth.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Tp750 Status: OR Thanks, Sean. Will do. --Joel From jdg@oz.plymouth.edu Sun Dec 26 20:04:54 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA29404 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 26 Dec 1993 20:04:52 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA07891 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Sun, 26 Dec 1993 20:04:51 -0600 Received: from oz.plymouth.edu by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA07882 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 26 Dec 1993 20:04:46 -0600 Received: by oz.plymouth.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26619; Sun, 26 Dec 93 21:07:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 21:07:38 -0500 X-Ph: V3.17@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: jdg@oz.plymouth.edu (Dr. Joel Goldfield) Message-Id: <9312270207.AA26619@oz.plymouth.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: Problems with Dock I & board X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR Dear TP750 colleagues, I've got a problem to resolve ASAP before I do another conference presentation. I can't get a Tandberg Voicecard (8-bit) sound card to work in the Dock I. The software applications I need to show specifically support this board, which can be adjusted for IRQ's 2-7, DMA's 0-2. I've made sure everything is installed snugly, and when I dock the TP, then plug in the Dock, the green "plugged in" light on both units appears. However, when I turn on the TP by pushing the white power button, lights on both units briefly flicker, then the whole thing shuts down & can't be turned on again until I "undock" the TP. Even then , the Dock won't turn back on, I think, until I unplug it, then plug it back in. I may even have to open the bottom, then close it, replug it, etc. Any idea how to get it to accept this board? I've checked the system settings to make sure there's no IRQ conflict, and there doesn't appear to be. The audio device in it is set for IRQ 10, DMA 0-1. I've set mine on IRQ 3, DMA 2. BUt I don't think this matters, the TP doesn't even have time to boot up before the system shuts down with in 1 sec. of my attempting to turn it on. Thanks in advance, Joel Goldfield From cyliax@cs.indiana.edu Wed Dec 29 07:40:19 1993 Received: from jaws.cs.indiana.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA08578 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 29 Dec 1993 07:40:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199312291340.AA08578@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Received: by jaws.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09458; Wed, 29 Dec 1993 08:40:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 08:40:31 -0500 From: "Ingo Cyliax" To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: UNIX-es on IBM TP750? Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops In-Reply-To: <2frhun$com@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University Cc: Status: OR We have gotten BSD/I's BSD to run on one after hacking some of the pieces, I'm sure FreeBSD and NetBSD will run with similiar hacks. The most annoying problem on it is the keyboard controller, the keymap is non-standard after a reset, so you have to make sure that Unix doesn't reset the keyboard controller in the boot sequence. Anyway, it's a really nice machine. We ordered a D-Link 650 PCMCIA ethernet card in hopes of getting a driver for it working. With a real ethernet card, this would be a cool box. Of course, once the card gets here we have to pry the machine out the faculty's hands that owns it ;-) Hope that helps, -ingo From moore@cs.utk.edu Wed Dec 29 17:32:19 1993 Received: from WILMA.CS.UTK.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA02422 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 29 Dec 1993 17:32:17 -0600 Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (8.6.4/2.8c-UTK) id SAA04300; Wed, 29 Dec 1993 18:25:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199312292325.SAA04300@wilma.cs.utk.edu> From: Keith Moore To: Sean Chou Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu Subject: Re: UNIX-es on TP750 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Dec 1993 16:21:40 CST." <199312292221.AA24728@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 18:25:29 -0500 Sender: moore@cs.utk.edu Status: OR > Well, you must be the first to be disgusted with it. Why not sell > it off, since you could fetch quite a nice price for it still (or > do you have a 750, rather than a 750C)? Can't sell it; it belongs to my employer. But I can't use it either (sigh). And yes, it's a 750. The IBM guy sent us 750s instead of 750Cs; told us we could upgrade later. Then we found out that the upgrade cost was $2700/unit and my boss said 'no way'. > In any event, don't fret! :) Someone has sent me a message saying > that he got BSD to work with his 750 and you may want to give that > a swing. Have you tried any of the not-so-free UNIX-es? sounds good. do you have details? or can you send me his email addr? I'm not going to spend money on UNIX unless there's a guarantee that it will work with the 750...including the pcmcia cards. w/o a modem and ethernet it's not going to do me much good. > I run OS/2 on mine and it works like a charm. You may want to look > into that since it overcomes many of the brain-dead limitation of DOS > and Windows. thanks, but I need a system that will let me run my UNIX apps. > I have a mailing list dedicated to owners of TP750s. > Maybe you can drop by and check it out although no one I know of in > there is running any UNIX-es on his machine. Just send mail to > tp750@uiuc.edu and give use your views, machine setup, OS, etc. okay...is there a list archive that I could look though? Keith From moore@cs.utk.edu Wed Dec 29 22:59:39 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA23898 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 29 Dec 1993 22:59:37 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA01006 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Wed, 29 Dec 1993 22:59:36 -0600 Received: from WILMA.CS.UTK.EDU by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA00993 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 29 Dec 1993 22:59:31 -0600 Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (8.6.4/2.8c-UTK) id XAA04777; Wed, 29 Dec 1993 23:53:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199312300453.XAA04777@wilma.cs.utk.edu> X-Ph: V4.1@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: random thinkpad 750 musings/questions Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu From: Keith Moore Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 23:53:28 -0500 Sender: moore@cs.utk.edu X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR I've been struggling for several weeks to get my thinkpad up and running some flavor of UNIX. So far I've tried linux, freebsd, and netbsd, with no success. What I'm finding is that this machine is very incompatible with other [34]86 boxes, so the various UNIX-like operating systems won't talk to it. + the (2.88 mb) floppy controller is different. linux can't read from its floppy disk in order to install the rest of the system. + the hard disk drive geometry is not in the eeprom, so systems that look there for the geometry will fail. + When I do get the linux system booted at all, it comes up with the keyboard as if the 'Fn' key were pressed. So when I try to log in as 'root' it looks like 'r66t'. + I have a Dock 1. I've tried plugging in an AT hard/floppy controller with a 1.44 Mb floppy attached (to get around the floppy drive problem). No matter what jumper settings, (either the primary or secondary controller addresses) the system will not boot with this installed. + I've also tried plugging in an external keyboard to the Dock 1's keyboard jack. That didn't work either...it's just ignored. (Naturally I don't have the "keyboard/mouse connector option"...so I can't connect it to the thinkpad's mouse jack.) + Either Linux doesn't recognize the scsi controller in the Dock 1, or it doesn't recognize the CDROM drive. What kind of SCSI controller is this? Is it compatible with anybody else? + I suppose getting the pcmcia ether card to work is out of the question? + The external scsi connector on the Dock 1 is a 60(!) pin connector of a type I've never seen before. Where can I get an adapter from this to something that's more standard? (or just a ribbon cable connector!) All in all, I'm very frustrated with this machine. Can anyone help me get this thing going or answer any of these questions? Thanks very much, Keith Moore From ychou Thu Dec 30 05:15:57 1993 Received: by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu id AA22768 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Thu, 30 Dec 1993 05:15:56 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 05:15:56 -0600 From: Sean Chou Message-Id: <199312301115.AA22768@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: tp Status: OR >Path: vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!jarthur.cs.hmc.edu!jokim >From: jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu (John H. Kim) >Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops >Subject: Re: UNIX-es on IBM TP750? >Date: 30 Dec 1993 06:38:27 GMT >Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA >Lines: 18 >Message-ID: <2ftt13$qig@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> >References: <2frhun$com@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: jarthur.cs.hmc.edu In article <2frhun$com@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, Sean Chou wrote: >I remember seeing a thread about whether or not the TP750 series can >run the various UNIX-es a while back. And I remember someone saying >that Linux doesn't work although a fix exists for it. Where's that >fix? Also, I seem to recall someone saying SCO Xenix dies out too. Is >anyone running a UNIX-type OS on their TP750s? SCO sent me a message saying there's a patch to let SCO UNIX recognize the hard drive controller on the TP750. That was the only problem I had - it booted OK off the floppy, I just couldn't do anything afterwards because it automatically goes into the install routine which died when it couldn't find a hard drive. No idea on Linux. -- John H. Kim | (This space to be filled when I think of jokim@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu | something clever to use as a disclaimer) -- Sean Chou University of Illinois - Champaign Email: seanchou@uiuc.edu From moore@cs.utk.edu Thu Dec 30 11:03:48 1993 Received: from WILMA.CS.UTK.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA04336 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 30 Dec 1993 11:03:45 -0600 Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (8.6.4/2.8c-UTK) id LAA05313; Thu, 30 Dec 1993 11:57:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199312301657.LAA05313@wilma.cs.utk.edu> From: Keith Moore To: Sean Chou Cc: dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar), jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Kim), sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (Brian Tarkington), cfogg@netcom.com (Chad Fogg), sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Steve Perfect), stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz (Steve Withers), jdg@oz.plymouth.edu (Joel Goldfield), moore@cs.utk.edu (Keith Moore) Subject: Re: random thinkpad 750 musings/questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Dec 1993 05:04:27 CST." <199312301104.AA22547@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 11:57:26 -0500 Sender: moore@cs.utk.edu Status: OR > > + the (2.88 mb) floppy controller is different. linux can't read > > from its floppy disk in order to install the rest of the system. > > If that's the major problem and it's not something like a BIOS > incompatibility, have you tried an external floppy or perhaps > something along the lines of installing from the hard drive after > transferring the Linux files onto the hard drive? I know Linux > has some sort of option that will allow you to install from the > hard drive although I forget exactly how it works... I did try plugging in a second hard disk/floppy controller into the Dock 1...but no luck. I don't have an external floppy drive for this beast. Apparently it's not an ordinary drive, but a special option of some sort. > > + I've also tried plugging in an external keyboard to the Dock 1's > > keyboard jack. That didn't work either...it's just ignored. > > That's really bad obviously. I wonder if this problem exists under > DOS or OS/2? It certainly exists under IBM DOS; that's what I tried first. Keith From jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU Thu Dec 30 11:12:24 1993 Received: from jarthur.Claremont.EDU (jarthur.cs.hmc.edu) by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA04908 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 30 Dec 1993 11:12:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199312301712.AA04908@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: random thinkpad 750 musings/questions (fwd) To: Sean Chou Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 9:09:49 PST From: "John H. Kim" In-Reply-To: <199312301059.AA22451@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>; from "Sean Chou" at Dec 30, 93 4:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR Hey Sean, forward this to the group and the new guy too. > Forwarded message: > From moore@cs.utk.edu Wed Dec 29 22:59:39 1993 > > I've been struggling for several weeks to get my thinkpad up and > running some flavor of UNIX. So far I've tried linux, freebsd, > and netbsd, with no success. What I'm finding is that this machine > is very incompatible with other [34]86 boxes, so the various > UNIX-like operating systems won't talk to it. > > + the (2.88 mb) floppy controller is different. linux can't read > from its floppy disk in order to install the rest of the system. When I was installing a couple of optical floppy drives (21 MB) the manuals mentioned something about the standard PC floppy controller only capable of handing media up to 2MB, and for the 2.88MB and 21MB floppies to work, you needed a specially designed floppy controller or a SCSI controller. It may just be a matter of the Unixes you've tried not supporting the 2.88 drive rather than IBM deliberately making their floppy incompatible. The one Unix I tried (SCO UNIX) booted off and recognized the floppy just fine. > + the hard disk drive geometry is not in the eeprom, so systems > that look there for the geometry will fail. Someone mentioned many of the IBM desktop systems do this too. Since this is the case, most software out there seem to have patches to overcome this. > + I have a Dock 1. I've tried plugging in an AT hard/floppy controller > with a 1.44 Mb floppy attached (to get around the floppy drive problem). > No matter what jumper settings, (either the primary or secondary > controller addresses) the system will not boot with this installed. Have you tried physically removing the 2.88 MB floppy when you try this? > + I've also tried plugging in an external keyboard to the Dock 1's > keyboard jack. That didn't work either...it's just ignored. > (Naturally I don't have the "keyboard/mouse connector option"...so > I can't connect it to the thinkpad's mouse jack.) Try connecting it to the TP's PS/2/Mouse jack just to see if it works. > + Either Linux doesn't recognize the scsi controller in the Dock 1, > or it doesn't recognize the CDROM drive. What kind of SCSI controller > is this? Is it compatible with anybody else? Give IBM's 800 support line a call (800-772-2227). You paid lots of money for the machine and the support. Use it. From jdg@oz.plymouth.edu Thu Dec 30 21:36:14 1993 Received: from oz.plymouth.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA20156 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 30 Dec 1993 21:36:07 -0600 Received: by oz.plymouth.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA20311; Thu, 30 Dec 93 22:38:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 22:38:00 -0500 From: jdg@oz.plymouth.edu (Dr. Joel Goldfield) Message-Id: <9312310338.AA20311@oz.plymouth.edu> To: cfogg@netcom.com, dewar@schonberg.cs.nyu.edu, jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu, sperfec@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, stevew@swell.actrix.gen.nz, sztarkin@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: random thinkpad 750 musings/questions (fwd) Status: OR It sounds like Keith Moore & I may be having a similar problem regarding a device installed in the Dock I. There must be some catch about getting any card to work in that thing. Ideas? --Joel From dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU Fri Dec 31 08:06:48 1993 Received: from SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA27675 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 31 Dec 1993 08:06:46 -0600 Received: by SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA25168; Fri, 31 Dec 93 09:06:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 93 09:06:58 -0500 From: dewar@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU (Robert Dewar) Message-Id: <9312311406.AA25168@SCHONBERG.CS.NYU.EDU> To: ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: random thinkpad 750 musings/questions (fwd) Status: OR We really need better management of this list. It should be managed like any other list so that to everyone it looks like there is just one user. If you can't do that, maybe I could here (I manage several such lists). Otherwise the headers are gruesomely long and you can't just do replies) From jdg@oz.plymouth.edu Fri Dec 31 10:03:31 1993 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by uxa.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA01181 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 31 Dec 1993 10:03:30 -0600 Received: by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu id AA24096 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ychou@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu); Fri, 31 Dec 1993 10:03:28 -0600 Received: from oz.plymouth.edu by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA24081 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 31 Dec 1993 10:03:18 -0600 Received: by oz.plymouth.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA07567; Fri, 31 Dec 93 11:06:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 93 11:06:13 -0500 X-Ph: V4.1@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From: jdg@oz.plymouth.edu (Dr. Joel Goldfield) Message-Id: <9312311606.AA07567@oz.plymouth.edu> To: tp750@uiuc.edu Subject: Dock I shut down X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: OR I just talked with Sean at the IBM hotline for Thinkpads. He & his technician today (several are away on vacation) have no idea why the Dock I/TP 750 shut down when I have that Tandberg sound board plugged in & try to turn on the units. He thinks it should work with no special changes (jumpers, etc.) as long as there's no IRQ conflict. I told him the settings that seem free & he agrees they look OK. Most curiously, he has no idea in the 1st place why the whole thing would just shut down if the board is good, and it is; I tried it in my 386 machine just prior to plugging it into the Dock I. He'll discuss the problem with more technicians on Monday. Regards, Joel Goldfield