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Date: 17 Mar 1996 12:32:44 U
From: thinkpad@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject: <C> thinkpad digest for Sun
To: "thinkpad-digest-recipients:;" <thinkpad-digest-recipients:#059#@CS.UTK.EDU>
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Mail*Link(r) SMTP thinkpad digest for Sun, 17 Mar 1996
Today's topics:
Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough (Doug Fairclough)
Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough (Michael Klenner)
Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough (billy@mix.com)
Re: thinkpad digest for Sat, 16 Mar 1996 (Paul Rubin)
Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough (Bob Cowles)
ThinkPad vs. Competition (Maury Keith Donen)
frustrations with thinkpad 701 (Joe Hummel)
Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough (Jeffrey Friedl)
Re: frustrations with thinkpad 701 (Roger J. Buffington)
Re: ThinkPad vs. Competition (Robert Dewar)
Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough (Michael Klenner)
"Breakout Box" for TP755CD (Scoundrl)
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------------------------------
In-Reply-To: <314AEC5E.1496@cs.umbc.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:43:22 -0800
From: Doug Fairclough <kensey@wired.com>
To: Richard Fritzson <fritzson@cs.umbc.edu>
CC: Thinkpad <thinkpad@cs.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough
Message-Id: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960316133539.24804A-100000@get.wired.com>
it is a touch tone dial -> i was able to connect through an
external modem on a desktop computer on the same line that
i was not able to connect with.
so its something with the pcmcia.
i think its a 'force of power issue', meaning, the thinkpad was not able
to kick out a signal with enough force to get the line to recognize that a
number was being dialed. if that makes any sense ....
doug
On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Richard Fritzson wrote:
> Doug Fairclough wrote:
> >
> > had a funny problem where i was trying to demo some product
>
> > anyway, i got a dial tone, and i heard the numbers being dialed
> > (touch tone), but the dial tone did not go away, but sat there.
> >
> > anyone ever have this happen on any kind of modem ?
>
> Yes. On a rotary dial only line (are there really such things
> anymore?) or on some PBX lines which don't recognize the standard touch
> tones.
>
------------------------------
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960316133539.24804A-100000@get.wired.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:04:56 -0500
From: Michael Klenner <mdk1143@is.NYU.EDU>
To: Doug Fairclough <kensey@wired.com>
CC: Richard Fritzson <fritzson@cs.umbc.edu>, Thinkpad <thinkpad@cs.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960316165702.28865A-100000@is.nyu.edu>
On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Doug Fairclough wrote:
>
> it is a touch tone dial -> i was able to connect through an
> external modem on a desktop computer on the same line that
> i was not able to connect with.
>
> so its something with the pcmcia.
>
> i think its a 'force of power issue', meaning, the thinkpad was not able
> to kick out a signal with enough force to get the line to recognize that a
> number was being dialed. if that makes any sense ....
Nope. This doesn't make any sense, Doug. It's not a voltage
differential that causes a phone system to kick a line into an engaged
state. In fact, it is the characteristics of the tones themselves. (If
a person could generate the appropriate tones with the human voice, the
phone system would in fact dial.) What does this mean? I can think of
three possible situations:
1) The local phone system has problems with its monitoring sensitivity.
2) The MHz is not generating signals at the appropriate level.
3) The MHz DSP is generating skewed frequencies.
I would think the first is most likely, since it seems to be the only
real variable here.
-Michael
------------------------------
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960316133539.24804A-100000@get.wired.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:07:38 -0500
From: billy@mix.com
To: thinkpad@cs.utk.edu
Subject: Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough
Message-Id: <827014058.670527.YOUDELMAN@Eisner.DECUS.Org>
> anyway, i got a dial tone, and i heard the numbers being dialed
> (touch tone), but the dial tone did not go away, but sat there.
Be sure the modem is set up for the country you are in...
Billy Y..
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 14:11:39 -0800
From: phr@netcom.com (Paul Rubin)
To: thinkpad@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject: Re: thinkpad digest for Sat, 16 Mar 1996
Message-Id: <199603162211.OAA26365@netcom3.netcom.com>
1. To the person wanting power for a video camera from his thinkpad:
I think the only port where you can get anywhere near that much power
is the pcmcia port, whose pinout is well documented (it is a standard).
And even that is pushing it. You really are asking for an awful lot
of power. Re getting to the pcmcia port, the best way is probably
with a card extender, or you can get an empty card case. You can
get stuff like that from hardware engineering rags (I don't have any
titles handy but could check). I don't know about getting them in
unit qtys though, except maybe as a sample.
2. Does anyone know if it's possible to use the mwave modem and sound
under windows 95? How would I go about setting it up? Thanks.
3. I'm looking to buy a spare disk pack (with caddy) for my 755cx.
If you have a favorite supplier or have a pack for sale, let me know.
I'd consider either a large capacity pack (1.2 GB) or a low cost,
lower capacity pack.
4. Re a group order for trackpoint caps: I've gotten lots of email
so it looks like there is considerable interest. I'm trying to talk
one of the other respondents into placing the order since he wants
more caps than I do, but one way or another an announcement will
be posted to the list.
------------------------------
In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sat, 16 Mar 96 17:04:56 EST.)
<Pine.OSF.3.91.960316165702.28865A-100000@is.nyu.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:20:27 -0500
From: rdc@pelican.cit.cornell.edu (Bob Cowles)
To: Thinkpad <thinkpad@cs.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough
Message-Id: <9603162220.AA20014@pelican.cit.cornell.edu>
In my experience, when a modem didn't break dial tone, it was
because "tip" and "ring" were reversed --- that is the red and
green phone wires were backwards. This can be especially the
case with home wiring. Anyway, if you can, try reversing the
wires and see if it makes a difference.
Bob Cowles (aka Dr.Chaos)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:56:50 -0600
From: Maury Keith Donen <umdonen@cc.UManitoba.CA>
To: thinkpad@cs.utk.edu
Subject: ThinkPad vs. Competition
Message-Id:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.960316214847.16750A-100000@antares.cc.umanitoba.ca>
I am currently doing much research on the future purchase of an IBM
Thinkpad notebook. The models i am considering will probably be in the
760CD class. I recently saw a preview on the new Micro Millennia
Transport notebook. The model had a Pentium 133mhz, 32 mb ram, 1.3GB HD,
quad-speed CD Rom, 11.3 -inch Super VGA display, PCI 64-bit graphics
accelerator, 256KB L2 pipeline burst cache, etc., etc. The interesting
thing is the price is approx $5,799. I would like to know why this model
is less expensive than the IBM ThinkPad High end models, and what you
would say are the differences between the ThinkPads and its competitors.
I would like to thank you in advance for all your help.
Regards,
Maury
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:30:52 -0800
From: Joe Hummel <jhummel@cy4.ICS.UCI.EDU>
To: thinkpad@cs.utk.edu
Subject: frustrations with thinkpad 701
Message-Id: <9603161930.aa25734@paris.ics.uci.edu>
Hi all, perhaps someone can offer some assistance. I just installed
win95 (onto a clean hard disk) on a tp 701, and have the following
questions:
1.) floopy doesn't work when multiport II is plugged in; works fine
when standalone. I've tried various interrupt settings and
so forth. Any ideas?
2.) when I try to use the modem (when running hyperterminal), I select
the internal 701 modem, but then when I say dial it asks me to
"insert the modem". ????
3.) Am I correct in assuming that the serial port and modem port
cannot both share interupt 4? Or can they, as lone as one
is serial_1 and the other is serial_3 -- and I don't try to use
them at the same time?
4.) Is the floppy hot-swappable/hot-pluggable?
Thanks! I love the machine, but this sure is frustrating...
- joe hummel
UC-Irvine
------------------------------
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960316165702.28865A-100000@is.nyu.edu> (message
from Michael Klenner on Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:04:56 -0500 (EST))
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:16:42 +0900
From: Jeffrey Friedl <jfriedl@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp>
Reply-To: jfriedl@omron.co.jp
To: thinkpad@cs.utk.edu
Subject: Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough
Message-Id:
<199603170416.NAA19658@tubby.nff.ncl.omron.co.jp.nff.ncl.omron.co.jp>
Michael Klenner <mdk1143@is.NYU.EDU> wrote:
|> phone system would in fact dial.) What does this mean? I can think of
|> three possible situations:
|>
|> 1) The local phone system has problems with its monitoring sensitivity.
|> 2) The MHz is not generating signals at the appropriate level.
|> 3) The MHz DSP is generating skewed frequencies.
Or, as someone mentioned, it was a pulse-only line. I have such a line (for
$50/year for tone, I'll stay pulse for the low amount of dialout that I
do), and until I reconfigure new software from ATDT to ATDP, I get the same
hear-the-tones-but-never-get-past-the-dialtone problem mentioned in the
original note.
Jeffrey
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Friedl <jfriedl@omron.co.jp> Omron Corp, Nagaokakyo, Kyoto 617 Japan
See my Jap<->Eng dictionary at http://www.wg.omron.co.jp/cgi-bin/j-e
and http://enterprise.ic.gc.ca/cgi-bin/j-e
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:20:27 -0500
From: buffingt@chaph.usc.edu (Roger J. Buffington)
Reply-To: buffingt@chaph.usc.edu (Roger J. Buffington)
To: jhummel@cy4.ICS.UCI.EDU, tp750@cs.utk.edu
Subject: Re: frustrations with thinkpad 701
Message-Id: <199603170514.VAA00743@chaph.usc.edu>
On Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:30:52 -0800 you wrote:
>
> 3.) Am I correct in assuming that the serial port and modem port
> cannot both share interupt 4? Or can they, as lone as one
> is serial_1 and the other is serial_3 -- and I don't try to use
> them at the same time?
I use OS/2 Warp on my TP, but I recently installed Win 95 on my
desktop. I discovered that one of Win 95's known bugs is that if you
use Com 2 for a modem, and Com 1 for a mouse, (or vice-versa) they may
conflict. Placing them on Coms 1 and 3 clears up the problem.
Your problems sound like Win95 problems, not IBM TP problems. You
might check out Compuserve's Win95 forum: it has lots of information
about the depressing number of bugs with the current version of Win95,
and what the workarounds are.
----------------------------------
Roger J. Buffington
USC Law, Class of '97
-----------------------------
AB6WR
Go Trojans!!
WARPing with PM-Mail
| "I would rather die peacefully, in my sleep, like my Grandfather,
rather than screaming, and in terror, like his passengers..."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 05:36:30 -0500
From: dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar)
To: thinkpad@cs.utk.edu, umdonen@cc.umanitoba.ca
Subject: Re: ThinkPad vs. Competition
Message-Id: <9603171036.AA11045@nile.gnat.com>
why is that model cheaper than the IBM thinkpad? Easy to answer, clones
manufactured by second tier manufacturers are always cheaper. There can
be many reasons for this -- note for example the prominent word "limited"
in the guarantee notice for the Micro Millenia notebook (at least in the
ad).
So, investigate guarantees and service records.
Also, make absolutely sure you try out the notebook before committing to it.
Specs don't mean much!
I certainly agre that specwise the MMT looks good! IBM thinkpads certainly
command premium prices, but you defiitely get premium quality in return.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 08:10:19 -0500
From: Michael Klenner <klennerm@is.nyu.edu>
To: jfriedl@omron.co.jp
CC: THINKPAD@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject: Re: pcmcia dial tone passthrough
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960317131019.0068b414@is.nyu.edu>
At 01:16 PM 3/17/96 +0900, you wrote:
>
>Or, as someone mentioned, it was a pulse-only line. I have such a line (for
>$50/year for tone, I'll stay pulse for the low amount of dialout that I
>do), and until I reconfigure new software from ATDT to ATDP, I get the same
>hear-the-tones-but-never-get-past-the-dialtone problem mentioned in the
>original note.
I believe that the person having difficulties told us that he was able to
dial out on the same line with a different modem, using tone dial DSS. This
would rule out the possibility of pulse only service. However, it would be
interesting to put the modem in pulse mode and dial out that way, just for
giggles and information.
-Michael
PS: A couple of years ago, the federal government in the US decided that the
phone companies were being unreasonable in demanding supplemantary fees for
tone service, which is now a defacto standard. I don't pay such a surcharge
anymore. You might want to look into this for yourself.
---
Michael Klenner East: klennerm@is.nyu.edu
New York University West: mklenner@pacificnet.net
Tisch School of the Arts http://pages.nyu.edu/~mdk1143
Institute of Film & Television talk: michael@24frames.com
---
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 10:58:07 -0500
From: Scoundrl <scoundrl@nando.net>
To: Thinkpad List <TP750@cs.utk.edu>
Subject: "Breakout Box" for TP755CD
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960317100519.22930A-100000@bessel.nando.net>
A recent question about a TP's not breaking the dial tone reminded me
that some of you might want to duplicate a little gizmo I built for my
own TP to interface it more universally with the phone. BTW- IMHO, the
answer to the person's problem with his own TP not breaking the dial tone
was that he needed to try PULSE DIALING instead of TONE DIALING to see if
it made a difference.
Before I start with the description of my own "traveling kit" with
breakout box for modem connects, let me give a tiny bit of explanation of
the USA phone wiring convention.
Most wires to telephones have 2 or 4 conductors. It only takes two of
these to make a modem work, so if there are 4 wires, that means there are
two POSSIBLE combinations that could work. Think of these as the "inner"
and "outer" pair. By convention, these are color coded as RED/GREEN as
the inner pair and BLACK/YELLOW as the outer pair. (If you don't believe
me, put on your glasses and look very closely at the tiny plug at the end
of a phone cord <grin>>.
I'm not going to get into a "tip and ring," or "battery and AC"
discussion, but want to let you know that the phone circuit isn't like
a typical circuit. Its weird.
Because of this, and because installers make mistakes, the phone circuit
in your office, house or motel room may work fine for telephones, but be
a mess for modems. In the USA, we have an electronics chain called Radio
Shack, which sells all kinds of telephone gadgetry, in addition to most
of the stuff any experimenter would want for any elecrical project
One of the things Radio Shack sell is a phone circuit tester, about $5
US. It is a tiny box with a red and green LED on the top and a short
cord with RJ11 jack on the end. To work, you merely plug it into a phone
jack. If you get a green LED, the "polarity and voltage" are OK. A red
LED means that the "polarity" is reversed. No LED means that the line is
dead. There's a problem, though. In most phone and modem circuits, only
the inner pair of wires (RED/GREEN) run up to a single-line telephone.
Should the phone be wired oddly (or wired this way deliberately) you have
no way of connecting to the OUTER pair of wires and/or reversing the
"polarity" of the circuit. That's where my little box comes in handy.
Essentially, my little breakout box does this: I hope my description is
adequate for any of you who want to build your own to do so. I may also
make up a wiring diagram and put it in my FTP site for anyone to
download, but that'll be later on.
The box has an "IN" and "OUT" RJ11 female connector. A standard 4-WIRE
phone cord connects between the "IN" connector and the wall jack of the
phone system. The "OUT" connector on the box uses only an "inner" pair
of RED/GREEN and connects with another cord to the TP755's modem port.
On the side of the box are three switches. The first switch is a DPDT
toggle switch. The incoming four wires connect to the OUTER pairs of
poles, with RED and BLACK on the "left" side and GREEN and YELLOW on the
"right" side. The center pair of poles are wired with RED on the "left"
side and GREEN on the "right" side. As you can see, toggling this switch
causes the CENTER poles to alternate between the incoming RED/GREEN pair
and the BLACK/YELLOW pair, giving you access to either pair with a flip
of the switch,
The RED/GREEN leads from the center poles of the first switch pass to a
second switch, which is a DPDT also. These connect to ONE END of the DPDT
switch: ie the "left and right" poles, and not to the center poles. A
second pair of "jumper" wires are connected at the same time to these
"left and right" poles and crisscross as they connect to the other poles
at the opposite end of the same switch. In otherwords, one end of the
"left" side of the DPDT switch is RED and the other end (because of the
crossover) would be GREEN. The "right" side would be the opposite.
By doing this, when the second switch is toggled, its center poles would
be RED/GREEN or GREEN/RED, depending on which end-pair of contacts were
being made at the time. In otherwords, the second switch reverses the
"polarity" of the wires that has been selected by the first switch.
The little tester I bought from Radio Shack "shorts out" the circuit, so
it cannot be used at the same time that the modem or phone is actually in
use. Therefore, it is necessary to connect it to the center pair of
contacts of the second switch via a momentary pushbutton switch. Here a
simple SPST Normally OPEN switch will do fine, since having just one wire
connected continually means nothing.
Therfore, the tester is glued with epoxy to the side of the little box
that holds the switches and RJ11 "in" and "out" connectors. Its RED wire
is soldered, together with the RED wire running to the RJ11 "out"
connector to one side of the center pair of the second switch. Its GREEN
lead is soldered to one connector of the SPST Normally OPEN pushbutton
switch and another GREEN wire runs from the other pushbutton connection
to the other side of the center pair of the second switch.
Finally, a GREEN wire from that same center pole of the second switch
runs to the GREEN terminal of the RJ11 "out" connector. WHEW!
Now in operation, you connect the "in" RJ11 to the telephone cord or to
the wall. The "out" is connected to the TP's modem. However, before
dialing, you press the momentary button briefly and look to see if you
get a green LED. If you do, you have power on whatever pair you're
connecte to and the polarity is OK. Toggling switch "one" will cycle
beteen the inner and outer pair of wires coming in from the wall, should
you have no LED at all. If the LED is RED, toggling switch two reverses
the "polarity," giving you a GREEN LED- and therefore a good connection
to the modem.
Since many of you all in this maillist are engineers or are in science, I
hope that I haven't offended you with this little simplistic gizmo.
However, there are some of us who are from the business community and
need a LOT of guidance in making little gizmos to make our life easier
<grin>. I use my breakout box when traveling and can safely tell you
that about HALF of the damn hotel rooms I've been in have the "polarity"
reversed or use, say, an outer pair of conductors instead of an inner pair.
Thomas A. Gauldin Here's to the land of the longleaf pine,
Raleigh, NC The summerland where the sun doth shine,
BSRB45A on Prodigy Where the weak grow strong and the strong grow great,
FAX (919) 676-1404 Here's to Downhome, the Old North State.
--------------------------------
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End of thinkpad Digest